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Mike,
Couldn’t agree more. Have 2 keepers (Private and semi-private) I’m interviewing for this summer! I promise they will have some great stuff for you!
Tom,
1. No, but i played Lookout Mtn and they allow dogs on the course, but NO trolleys (ha)
2. NO
3. I have 2 dogs (brother and sister). Bella could be trained to be on the course, her brother Page is too hard headed and it would be a huge hassle with him.
MM,
First off TNT is not that much money. 2ndly I don’t wanna travel 2 hours to play Golf on Sand every weekend I’m off. Here is Greywalls, in UP of Michigan, designed by Mike DeVries, a great architect. He did minimum TNT and used the Rock outcroppings to make great holes. Some TNT was used to make the 7th fairway do-able. It’s very wild terrain. Mostly sandy soil areas on the property. It was built for $3M or less. Inflation adjusted that is very inexpensive.
A few trees are okay on inland courses as long as they don’t interfere with the lines of play and enough wind is able to circulate the property.
Hickory Golf is on the rise in the US. Its voluntary.
IN THE US WE SPEND TOO MUCH ON CLUBHOUSES AND OTHER NON GOLF ITEMS. Don’t use TPC of Sawgrass as an example of ALL US golf courses. That was a mistake, but I didn’t pay for it. In the US we have exclusive private golf clubs, that make up 1-5% of the golf courses. Try and focus on the other 95%!
Greywalls
Hickories used by Keeper!
Melvyn,
In regards to fairway width. Many fairways have shrunk due to irrigation systems and tree planting programs which encroached fairways. This is from a US perspective. I agree completely that most fairways at private US clubs are overwatered. I however do NOT want any Governing body telling them how to properly maint their course.
I agree with you Golf Architecture or design should be about the land and common sense ways to make the golfer think. I wanna say that if a site is rocky, I have no problem with using TNT to make cool non-uniform fairways. People used to go as far as they could see (build as many holes as they could afford) and then go a little farther. Not this debt ridden society.
I really like the Aussie maint meld (haven’t been there though), they seem to focus on fairway and greens and let the rough go natural. I don’t see Art in Architecture, if one does that means possibly the course was over-shaped. Science is needed when you are focused on running your greens at 12 or more imo. No science in Golf Arch imo, even Donald Ross was afraid of the man with the yard stick….
The problem in the US is too much money is allocated to the clubhouse (money loser) and not enough attention to the golf course and making golf affordable to a bigger audience, which has lead to more natural designed destination golf courses in the US.
What about TNT fairways or making man made gully’s? Man made burns? Design elements that are common sense and create avenues for strategic design!
How about the hollow or man made gully created at the first at Huntercombe?
MM,
Tarland Turf Dyke looked like it was a grass mound that looked like grass bunker from behind the green looking back?
MM,
I didn’t have enough time to ask Mike DeVries this question, but I will ask the next Archie I interview this question about Askernish GC…
Tim,
Good point and I agree, some Archies seem to wanna get that one hole in a Magazine. You can relate it to music, would you rather have a great album or 1-2 hits with weak songs on the rest of the album?
The only excuse I can give modern day Archies is Environmental laws are extreme that Ross didn’t have to deal with. The little stream at Greywalls on the 4th hole DeVries couldn’t cut down trees by the stream because they feared the water temperature would rise for the fish (trout?). Funny it was 50 degs one of the days there in early August (ha). That hole would of been a par 5 most likely and better connection to the 5th tee routing wise. Also a gas line had to be exposed to aircraft on that hole, which prevented a cool par 5. Might of been possible with a bigger budget, money talks I’m told.
For anyone that has played Hope Valley (Ross) in Durham, NC it is a Golden Age housing planned Golf Course. Very nice homes canvass the course, but I don’t recall of any long walks on my one play. I don’t think Ross built many courses like this? I’m surprised more didn’t get built then in the roaring 20’s? At least they had taste back then. I don’t know if it was better land that improves the feel then the modern day cookie cutter nightmare?
Melvyn,
I agree, some wealthy clubs have removed cart paths. I’m told by some that you want carts to scatter and drive randomly instead over and over the same spot. It’s almost like a par for the course Construction fee for the 80s and 90s housing development courses. I tend to avoid those, I just hate to see fine golden age courses implement them in prior decades and leave them sit today. I think drainage is more expensive then cart paths, but I’d rather see that installed over paths. Also in the US, many courses built on clay in the metro areas if they receive 1.5+ inches of rain, some people put pressure on keeper to allow carts that they didn’t do imo 20-40 years ago. Also public course owners want them imo, to prevent loss of revenue when it rains hard the night before.
I played a course in the U.P. of Michigan last summer called Greywalls and it’s on challenging terrain to say the least. Played an unplanned twilight round cartballing before scheduled rounds and I was thinking there is no way anyone can walk this course. After walking it I realized how far off the cart paths took one from the course and it wasn’t that bad at all. A cartballing round missed so MUCH of the course to the point of disconnection. So i think instances like that can possibly discourage someone from giving walking a go.
It’s crazy that bunkers cost significantly more to maintain then greens in the US at your high end places. I wish we would focus on Fairways and Green, let the other stuff to nature (Aussie like meld I’m told).
Melvyn,
When you say “cart track”, are you referring to cart path or the overall long distance from greens to tees and the disjointed routing of a cartball track?
The first WGS interview for me will be Architect Mike DeVries, hope to have it up in May. One of the questions deals with carts and banning walking. I’ll ask this question to every Architect I interview!
